When reading this article on Thomas Aquinas, I found this interesting take on justification:
The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.’[Matthew 4:17]. Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high…The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
My observations:
1. Official Catholic dogma admits that conversion begins as “operating grace,” which means it is solely the act of God. This is certainly correct.
2. The idea of “cooperating grace” need not be unbiblical: “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” (Phil 2:12-13) Furthermore, read Ezek 18:31 (“Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?”) in light of Ezek 36:26 (“I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.)
The problem is the interpretation that the good works we do, while in the flesh, give us “merit” before God. I understand the Bible speaks of us being judged by our deeds, but the Bible also says “there is no one righteous.”
My best understanding is that our own good works do not merit justification, because God does not speak about them in that way: “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10) God has prepared for us good works that, cooperating with our will but ultimately changing it by His Spirit, we are to do in Christ.
Even in the Bible’s strongest statement saying that we are supposedly justified by works, we see that the plain reading of the text does not allow this conclusion: “Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?…You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” (James 2:22, 24)
James does not question that men are saved by the basis of their faith. He merely argues that faith without works is dead, as in, such faith that is simply made up of “head knowledge.” I would say everyone agrees with that.
However, in this teaching, we see nothing concerning the necessity of accruing merits throughout a lifetime. The Bible says that our good works are prepared for us beforehand, and being that it is God who works through us, justification then is an act of God, not of our own will in any way. Therefore, if justification begins and is at all times completed as an act of God, it is never added to in our lifetime by our works. Rather, works are the evidence that a saving faith is at work in us by God’s grace.
Orthodox Christian Theology 
Here is all you need to know. Forget wading through Augustine, the Dominicans vs Molinists, etc. 1 God wants all men (100%.) saved. All men are not saved. Ergo, freewill. Man is given a choice to resits or assent ( cooperate ).
If this is false, why didn’t God just create man already in heaven or hell?
Why do we waste our time with rhetorical questions? God revealed to us the truth in His Scripture. If we cannot find such a notion in the Scripture, why am I even compelled to consider it? God desires all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), yet God deliberately does not want certain people to repent (Isaiah 6:9-13). Already, I know it is God’s will to have certain people not repent.
Both are true and there is not a contradiction. We know this to be true because both are in the Scripture. As for “free will” explaining everything, I suggest you read “Free Will is Not the Problem” .http://christianreformedtheology.com/2014/01/11/free-will-is-not-the-problem/
This is very astute. A couple of things I would note:
You are again in agreement with the Catholic understanding when you say that good works do not merit justification. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion.” (CCC 2010)
I think the common claim that Catholics believe we are “justified by works” is an easily misunderstood misstatement. I made a post about this recently: Why the Catholic Understanding of Justification is Not “Faith Plus Works”. A major difficulty stems from differing terminology: When Protestants refer to “justification,” they almost always mean the initial act of God justifying the sinner; while for Catholics, justification is an ongoing process that includes what Protestants refer to as sanctification. So, in the Catholic understanding, good works play no role at all in the initial movement of grace that brings the believer to salvation; they are a part of the ongoing movement of grace in the believer’s life that conforms him to Christ. A statement of Catholic belief more consistent with Protestant terminology would be that we are “sanctified by good works.”
You are correct that there is no necessity of accruing the merits of good works throughout one’s life, as a prerequisite for salvation. Salvation is a free gift of grace, hard stop. But at the same time, Scripture is clear, as you note, that we will be judged according to our works and that our good works will be rewarded (e.g. Matthew 25). How is this consistent? How can it be both a free gift of God’s grace and a reward for our works? Well, as you have written elsewhere and I agree, even our good works are a gift of God’s grace. As Augustine famously wrote, “When God crowns our merits, he crowns nothing but his own gifts.”
Again, that you admit the idea of our wills, moved by God’s grace, cooperating with God’s will, is entirely consistent with Augustine and with Catholic theology, but really not consistent at all with the Reformed idea of “monergism” as I’ve read it in other authors. I’m not complaining at all; I think you’re right. But I’m not sure how “Reformed” you actually are. 😛
God bless you and His peace be with you!
Interesting comments. I have never heard a Catholic argue that they are saved by faith alone but “sanctified” by works.
I would suppose that the Protestant understanding is that the good works e are sanctified by are evidence for our fath, because sanctification like justification is a one time event in Christ: “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified” (Heb 10:14).
So, the crucial difference is how we view judgement by works. I view judgement by works as a very scary prospect apart from Christ, because even in Christ I still sin. Perhaps it is rare that I do anything egregious (curse for example), though if I held myself up to God’s perfect standards my sin is very persistent (blocking out thoughts, suppressing anger, getting bored of reading the Bible and wanting to red something else when God calls me to love Him with my whole heart, etc.)
In Catholicism, one could be absolved from these sins through confession and other good works done as a member of the Catholic Church. For example, though I am unsure if a correct understanding of Vatican II would deny this, I as a Protestant who have faith in Christ and do many good works cannot be saved, because even if I confess my sins to other Protestants and do good works, they are all outside the Catholic Church and without value.
Now, I do not object to this because I view that to be “unfair.” God is not compelled to be merciful to us and He can mete it out in any fashion He pleases, so that is not the problem. However, I think the Catholic has the same problem I do: we are constantly at God’s debt no matter how many times we are absolved from our sins. We sin practically every moment if we are honest with ourselves. Even in our good works, God sees our pride and our motivations which are never completely Godly. So, even if I were a Catholic and my good works and confession meant something, the weight of my bad works would still be overwhelming, because God demands perfection all the time. Because He is perfect, He rightly demands it.
Therefore, no one can maintain a saved state by their own works, because our works are never perfect. Yet, man logically can maintain a saved stated if he is perfect in Christ. Hence, if my works are judged by Christ’s works and all my bad works are nailed to Christ on the cross, then i really can be saved from my sin!
I want to do good works, I pray to God every day for obedience. But I want even more to be saved by Christ alone and be accounted part of His Church which is one flesh with Him, , because then upon judgement day God looks upon Christ’s bride as He were to look at Himself–completely righteous.
I have never heard a Catholic argue that they are saved by faith alone but “sanctified†by works.
Again, the distinctions here are largely of terminology: Yes, the initial act of justification, of Christ turning the sinner towards Him, is by faith alone. Catholics are (and have always been) consistent in teaching that. “Justification is … the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ” (CCC 1991). But being brought into His grace is not the end of being saved, but the beginning. Sanctification — the process of being made holy, converted and conformed to the image of Christ (2 Cor 3:18, Rom 8:28, 1 Cor 15:49) — is ongoing throughout the believer’s life.
I would suppose that the Protestant understanding is that the good works e are sanctified by are evidence for our fath, because sanctification like justification is a one time event in Christ: “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified†(Heb 10:14).
Hmmm… No, most Protestants also understand sanctification to be ongoing; and many Reformed are even willing to admit that it is “synergistic.” Cf. Is Sanctification Monergistic or Synergistic? A Reformed Survey.
So, the crucial difference is how we view judgement by works. I view judgement by works as a very scary prospect apart from Christ, because even in Christ I still sin. Perhaps it is rare that I do anything egregious (curse for example), though if I held myself up to God’s perfect standards my sin is very persistent (blocking out thoughts, suppressing anger, getting bored of reading the Bible and wanting to red something else when God calls me to love Him with my whole heart, etc.)
But as a Christian, your sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ. Is that not what you believe as a Protestant? We will be judged according to the grace we have been given (Matt 25:29).
In Catholicism, one could be absolved from these sins through confession and other good works done as a member of the Catholic Church. For example, though I am unsure if a correct understanding of Vatican II would deny this, I as a Protestant who have faith in Christ and do many good works cannot be saved, because even if I confess my sins to other Protestants and do good works, they are all outside the Catholic Church and without value.
No, that’s not correct. Confession is not a “good work” that we as believers must do; it is an act and a gift of grace by God as surely as is Baptism or the Cross. “Good works” are of no value in themselves in the forgiveness of our sins; even confessing our sins, as a “work” apart from the healing and saving grace of Christ, is empty. Scripture teaches of confession that “if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us” (1 John 1:9). The operative power of forgiveness is Christ’s, not ours. Scripture does encourage us to confess our sins to one another, and even confessing your sins to your Protestant brothers and sisters is a good and praiseworthy and beneficial thing: Scripture connects connects explicitly with healing (James 5:16). But no, unless you ask for and receive God’s forgiveness, there’s no remission of your sins there. What makes sacramental Confession in the Catholic Church special is that Jesus authorized his Apostles to remit and retain sins in His name (John 20:23, Matt 18:18). So when a believer confesses his sins to a priest and receives absolution, it is not the work of confessing the sins on the part of the believer that somehow “wins” the forgiveness of sins; it is solely the forgiveness of Christ, by the grace of the Cross, that forgives sins, not anything at all that we have done or could do. As for the rest: No Catholic who does “many good works” can be saved, merely by the account of those works. The only “works” that ultimately matter are receiving the grace of Christ through the Sacraments — because they are gifts of His grace, not because they are “works.” Doing “good works” as a believer is certainly important, because they are a cooperation with His grace, the fruit of His Spirit, and they contribute to our sanctification, our transformation into His image. But no, the idea that we must somehow do “enough good works” to be saved is not a Catholic idea: Merely by receiving and cooperating with His grace, i.e. not rejecting the grace He has given us or refusing the good works he has given us to do (cf. Eph 2:10), we will have more than enough to be saved. And no, the Catholic Church does not teach that you cannot be saved, and never has. Receiving the grace of His salvation is what saves you, not anything you do.
However, I think the Catholic has the same problem I do: we are constantly at God’s debt no matter how many times we are absolved from our sins. We sin practically every moment if we are honest with ourselves. Even in our good works, God sees our pride and our motivations which are never completely Godly.
Justification, the grace of Christ through the Cross, cancels the debt of our sins. Is that not what you believe as a Protestant? That is certainly what Catholics believe. Only the price Christ paid, not any price that we ever could pay, can purchase our salvation.
Therefore, no one can maintain a saved state by their own works, because our works are never perfect. Yet, man logically can maintain a saved stated if he is perfect in Christ. Hence, if my works are judged by Christ’s works and all my bad works are nailed to Christ on the cross, then i really can be saved from my sin!
No one can enter a “saved state” by his own works, let alone maintain it: it is only by God’s grace that we live at all. Christ does give us the grace by His Spirit to overcome sin (Rom 8:1-5), but most of our are not there yet: that is what the process of sanctification is all about (2 Cor 7:1, etc.). Certainly when we sin, the redemption and forgiveness for every sin has already been purchased by the blood of Christ. But the idea that when we stand before the throne of judgment, Christ’s works will be judged instead of ours, is not really scriptural. An outstanding book on the role of works in the final judgment, by the way, is Four Views on the Role of Works at the Final Judgment, from the Counterpoints series. Michael Barber, a Catholic theologian, lays out the Catholic understanding of works, merit, and judgment in this very well, better than I think I can.
I want to do good works, I pray to God every day for obedience. But I want even more to be saved by Christ alone and be accounted part of His Church which is one flesh with Him, , because then upon judgement day God looks upon Christ’s bride as He were to look at Himself–completely righteous.
Amen, brother. May he bring us all to that glory, holy and without blemish.
Again, the distinctions here are largely of terminology: Yes, the initial act of justification, of Christ turning the sinner towards Him, is by faith alone. Catholics are (and have always been) consistent in teaching that. “Justification is … the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ” (CCC 1991). But being brought into His grace is not the end of being saved, but the beginning. Sanctification — the process of being made holy, converted and conformed to the image of Christ (2 Cor 3:18, Rom 8:28, 1 Cor 15:49) — is ongoing throughout the believer’s life.
Hmmm… No, most Protestants also understand sanctification to be ongoing; and many Reformed are even willing to admit that it is “synergistic.” Cf. Is Sanctification Monergistic or Synergistic? A Reformed Survey.
But as a Christian, your sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ. Is that not what you believe as a Protestant? We will be judged according to the grace we have been given (Matt 25:29).
No, that’s not correct. Confession is not a “good work” that we as believers must do; it is an act and a gift of grace by God as surely as is Baptism or the Cross. “Good works” are of no value in themselves in the forgiveness of our sins; even confessing our sins, as a “work” apart from the healing and saving grace of Christ, is empty. Scripture teaches of confession that “if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us” (1 John 1:9). The operative power of forgiveness is Christ’s, not ours. Scripture does encourage us to confess our sins to one another, and even confessing your sins to your Protestant brothers and sisters is a good and praiseworthy and beneficial thing: Scripture connects connects explicitly with healing (James 5:16). But no, unless you ask for and receive God’s forgiveness, there’s no remission of your sins there.
What makes sacramental Confession in the Catholic Church special is that Jesus authorized his Apostles to remit and retain sins in His name (John 20:23, Matt 18:18). So when a believer confesses his sins to a priest and receives absolution, it is not the work of confessing the sins on the part of the believer that somehow “wins” the forgiveness of sins; it is solely the forgiveness of Christ, by the grace of the Cross, that forgives sins, not anything at all that we have done or could do.
As for the rest: No Catholic who does “many good works” can be saved, merely by the account of those works. The only “works” that ultimately matter are receiving the grace of Christ through the Sacraments — because they are gifts of His grace, not because they are “works.” Doing “good works” as a believer is certainly important, because they are a cooperation with His grace, the fruit of His Spirit, and they contribute to our sanctification, our transformation into His image. But no, the idea that we must somehow do “enough good works” to be saved is not a Catholic idea: Merely by receiving and cooperating with His grace, i.e. not rejecting the grace He has given us or refusing the good works he has given us to do (cf. Eph 2:10), we will have more than enough to be saved.
And no, the Catholic Church does not teach that you cannot be saved, and never has. Receiving the grace of His salvation is what saves you, not anything you do.
Justification, the grace of Christ through the Cross, cancels the debt of our sins. Is that not what you believe as a Protestant? That is certainly what Catholics believe. Only the price Christ paid, not any price that we ever could pay, can purchase our salvation.
No one can enter a “saved state” by his own works, let alone maintain it: it is only by God’s grace that we live at all. Christ does give us the grace by His Spirit to overcome sin (Rom 8:1-5), but most of our are not there yet: that is what the process of sanctification is all about (2 Cor 7:1, etc.). Certainly when we sin, the redemption and forgiveness for every sin has already been purchased by the blood of Christ. But the idea that when we stand before the throne of judgment, Christ’s works will be judged instead of ours, is not really scriptural.
An outstanding book on the role of works in the final judgment, by the way, is Four Views on the Role of Works at the Final Judgment, from the Counterpoints series. Michael Barber, a Catholic theologian, lays out the Catholic understanding of works, merit, and judgment in this very well, better than I think I can.
Amen, brother. May he bring us all to that glory, holy and without blemish.
“But being brought into His grace is not the end of being saved, but the beginning. Sanctification — the process of being made holy, converted and conformed to the image of Christ (2 Cor 3:18, Rom 8:28, 1 Cor 15:49) — is ongoing throughout the believer’s life.”
But do those verses say that? I have been re-reading through the NT and I am surprised how it is replete with references about being saved/healed/justified/righteous by belief or faith. There are a scanty few about works playing any role. So, indeed the Lord is transforming us into the image of His Son (2 Cor 3:18), that He works all things for good (Rom 8:28), and thereby we will bare the image of the heavenly Father (1 Cor 15:49) but I do not see how any of these verses show that my justification is ongoing or needs to be maintained like a car (i.e. if I don’t do the oil change and the tranny flush, my justification goes down the tube like my Nissan).
References to belief: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NASB&quicksearch=believe&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
To faith: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NASB&quicksearch=faith&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
To “saved”: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NASB&quicksearch=saved&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
“No, most Protestants also understand sanctification to be ongoing…”
They would choose the verses you did (2 Cor 3:18, 1 Cor 15:49) but they would say that this is evidence of the Spirit at work, not a requirement for salvation.
“But as a Christian, your sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ. Is that not what you believe as a Protestant?”
Yes, and not by how good I respond to this knowledge n the least bit, because by God’s standards I have responded terribly to the knowledge of salvation in the name of Jesus Christ. Like I told you, almost everything I do and think is sinful, not because I am not being obedient, but because my obedience is not good enough.
“No, that’s not correct. Confession is not a “good work” that we as believers must do; it is an act and a gift of grace by God as surely as is Baptism or the Cross….”
I apologize for any confusion of terminology, but I have been told that penance is a gift from God so sinners can be in right relation with Him. My point is that penance, or anything else that we do, is never done good enough where if it was required on any level for salvation our lack of perfection in it would testify against us.
“Scripture does encourage us to confess our sins to one another, and even confessing your sins to your Protestant brothers and sisters is a good and praiseworthy and beneficial thing: Scripture connects connects explicitly with healing (James 5:16).”
“But no, unless you ask for and receive God’s forgiveness, there’s no remission of your sins there.”
What if you forget or do not know? We confess sins of omission and such all the time.
“What makes sacramental Confession in the Catholic Church special is that Jesus authorized his Apostles to remit and retain sins in His name (John 20:23, Matt 18:18)…”
So, it is the Apostolic Authority, by right of Succession, that gives penance in the Catholic Church specialness or more efficacy?
Even if this is true, when you leave confession, do you sin on the way to the car?
“And no, the Catholic Church does not teach that you cannot be saved, and never has. Receiving the grace of His salvation is what saves you, not anything you do.”
But how do I get absolved of post-baptismal sins without a Priest clothed with the authority to bind and loose? How does a schismatic baptism avail me?
“Only the price Christ paid, not any price that we ever could pay, can purchase our salvation.”
But, being that Christ paid that debt 2,000 years ago how do I tap into His credit line? By faith. How do I maintain it? By remaining faithful.
“But the idea that when we stand before the throne of judgment, Christ’s works will be judged instead of ours, is not really scriptural.”
How so? He paid the penalty for our bad works on the cross: ” having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us…having nailed it to the cross” (Col 2:14). Even by default if all my bad works are nailed to the cross, if I am judged by works, only good works are left…so then the judgement would work in my favor. How do I have the certificate of debt canceled? By faith.
The Bible also says we are clothed by His righteousness:
Job said, “I put on righteousness, and it clothed me; My justice was like a robe and a turban” (Job 29:14). Isaiah wrote, “For He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness” (Is 61:10). In Zech 3 we have a picture of God clothing the High Priest with righteousness. In Rev 19:8 the clothing is the “righteous acts of the saints” (Rev 19:8) which we already agree are done by us through the Holy Spirit.
So, God not only pays our debt by taking the punishment in our place, but He clothes us with righteousness…the Bible is not explicit about this but the Church in Eph 5 is said to be one flesh with Christ. If that be the case, wouldn’t the Church be accounted as Christ upon judgement?
I’d ask that you consider Heb 10:9-14
“He takes away the first in order to establish the second. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.”
Sanctification is not ongoing. It has already occurred. Perfection is not ongoing, it has been achieved once and for all on the cross. I do not need to maintain what has already been achieved and done in my life, but I need to be faithful to God and persevere in the faith.
God bless,
Craig
I think that depends somewhat on what “role” you are expecting them to play. If you are expecting our “works” to have a part in our salvation or healing or the forgiveness of our sins, especially for new believers, then you’re absolutely right; they have no role at all. But Scripture is absolutely clear — and it’s here that you find the New Testament’s references to “works” — that good works are an essential part of the life of faith for the believer, the fruit of the Spirit, the necessary outworking of faith and grace (James 2:14-26, John 15:1-11, Gal 5:22-23, Eph 2:8-10, etc.).
Once again: there is a difference in how Protestants and Catholics use that word “justification.” What you describe, our being conformed to Christ, is what Protestants generally call “sanctification.” And it is an ongoing process (per the very verses you cite; also Eph 4:22-24, Phil 1:6, 3:12, James 1:4, etc.). You claim that this is already done and perfect the moment you become a believer, but is that really true? Can you really say that you were a “finished work” in Christ from the moment you believed? That there’s no more work He can do in your life, no more wounds He can heal, no other way you can be conformed to Him? Neither Scripture nor real life bears that out: If you were already perfect and perfectly conformed to Christ, then why are you (by your own testimony) still so sinful?
And Catholics would agree. Not a “requirement” for salvation, but an essential part of that transformation.
Yes, again, Catholics agree 100%. The only response that is required is that you do respond.
Are you referring to the Sacrament of Reconciliation (also called the Sacrament of Penance) as a whole, or to penitential acts that the penitent carries out after Confession? Yes, the Sacrament of Reconciliation is a gift of grace that brings the believer back to God’s grace if he falls into serious sin after Baptism. But no, penitential acts (“penance”) are something different. They are not a requirement for absolution or for salvation. No, you do not have to “do it good enough” before you can be absolved. If a believer left the confessional and was immediately hit by a bus and died, he would be saved. Similarly, if a believer rose from the baptismal waters and fell dead, he would be saved. “Works” are not a requirement for salvation, only grace.
It’s not a legalistic requirement on the part of God. If you forget to confess a sin, God forgives it anyway, if you place yourself in an attitude of sincere repentance toward Him. We routinely ask forgiveness “for these sins and any others which I do not now remember.” If you did forget, then it must not been a very serious sin anyway, unless you have psychological or neurological damage. And if you did not know that it was a sin, then you won’t be held accountable for it (cf. John 15:22).
I would not say that apostolic succession is a “right” so much as it’s a reality and a necessity — but yes. Christ appointed the Apostles as His ministers to do His work among His people, and that work still needs to be done.
If you’re having such a struggle with sin that you fall so easily and gravely, then I sincerely pray for you. But it is only grave sin that needs to be brought to Confession anyway, like murder, adultery, theft, dishonoring your father or mother, etc. I have struggled so much with a sin (a habitual and addictive behavior) that I did immediately fall again, not on the way to the car, but later the same night; and when that happens, Christ’s mercy is never exhausted. I bring it back to Him again, and He heals it again. In time, receiving grace and being restored again and again, we do grow in the strength to break free from sin, as I can attest.
The Church has taught, always and consistently, that schismatic Baptism, if done “with the intention of doing what the Church does,” accomplishes the same grace as Baptism performed in the Catholic Church (cf. Council of Trent, 7th Session, 3 March 1547, Decree concerning the Sacraments, Touching Baptism, Canon IV), a teaching dating from the schism of Novatian in the third century. So there’s that. And even in the case that a sincere believer fails to be baptized at all, out of lack of opportunity or ignorance of its necessity, then we have every hope that God will have mercy and grace on him anyway. The Church teaches that “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments” (CCC 1257). And the same applies to Confession: God grants His grace to whomever He wills, whenever He wills, however He wills. We believe that the Sacraments we have been given are the ordinary means of grace Jesus established for the forgiveness of our sins, but strictly speaking, they are not absolutely necessary for every person in every situation.
Are you sincerely repentant for your sins, out of a true love for God? Do you have every desire to turn from your sins and be healed and follow the Lord? Then you have no reason to doubt you are forgiven. As in the case of Baptism, particularly for those believers who don’t understand the necessity of confessing their sins, we believe God has mercy. Even for Catholics, sacramental Confession for grave sins isn’t always possible in a timely manner: but we believe that if the believer has true contrition, God will forgive him (CCC 1452).
Yes, and Catholics agree. But if you fail to remain faithful — if you fall into grave sin in infidelity to the Lord — what then? How are you restored to grace? By repentance and confession (1 John 1:9, 2:1).
I think you just answered your own question. The Bible never teaches that Christ’s works will be judged instead of ours, but instead repeatedly teaches that we will be judged according to our works. You are reading another doctrine into Scripture contrary to its own teaching.
Again… Really? You are perfect in God’s grace? You are already completely conformed to Christ? Why, then, do you go on sinning (1 John 3:9)? The translation you cite actually fudges the tense of the verb “are sanctified”: it’s a present participle (check the Greek), more correctly translated “those who are being sanctified” (as many recent translations read). The work of Christ that makes us holy was certainly been accomplished and perfected, once and for all, on the Cross. But that grace is not applied to all people in every way until they receive it: else why is it that men must still be saved? If you were “perfected” from the moment Christ paid the price for your redemption, why were you not born perfectly conformed to Christ? The truth that our being made perfect in Christ is an ongoing process throughout our lives is evident in both Scripture and our practical experience, and has been universally accepted by all Christians, Catholics and Protestants, through all ages. Once again, you are showing yourself not really to be “Reformed” at all. 😉
God bless bless and His peace be with you.
But do those verses say that? I have been re-reading through the NT and I am surprised how it is replete with references about being saved/healed/justified/righteous by belief or faith. There are a scanty few about works playing any role.
“But Scripture is absolutely clear — and it’s here that you find the New Testament’s references to “works” — that good works are an essential part of the life of faith for the believer…”
“The works mentioned here [James 2:24] are works of faith. No one can have perfect works unless he has faith, but many have perfect faith without works, since they do not always have time to do them,” says Saint Bede.
So, it is always faith, just given the time works come naturally with legitimate faith. The faith alone justifies from beginning to end, how such faith will have works because the Holy Spirit will work them through the believer. They works in of themselves do not maintain salvation or erase post-baptismal sins. Christ’s work on the cross canceled all believers sins for all time.
” You claim that this [sanctification] is already done and perfect the moment you become a believer, but is that really true?”
Yes, Paul writes that we have already been sanctified (i.e. set apart). However, being conformed to the image of Christ is an ongoing process, but this process is not what makes Christians in better standing with God (hence, it does not make the difference between heaven and hell.)
“Can you really say that you were a “finished work” in Christ from the moment you believed?”
No, the finished work is when we are resurrected spiritual (physical) bodies and made perfect. However, we ensured our attaining of this state the moment upon belief, and no additional work or effort is necessary, it is solely at the discretion of God.
“And Catholics would agree. Not a “requirement” for salvation, but an essential part of that transformation.”
Again, there is no disagreement with this, most Protestants do not believe in “cheap grace.” I left the Lutheran Church (ELCA), which is not a Church but Apostate, over this. However, it is important not to confuse an essential result of faith as a requirement. It is not a requirement.
And like we spoke about before, I am concerned over the implications that sacraments in the Catholic Church are the chief, normative means to maintain a saved state, when there is not maintenance. Perhaps, one can argue that faithfully doing the sacraments is evidence for salvation, as Jesus said, “My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples” (John 15:8). But their requirement appears to me to confuse what actually saves by (grace through faith, not works.)
“Yes, the Sacrament of Reconciliation is a gift of grace that brings the believer back to God’s grace if he falls into serious sin after Baptism.”
But if hateful thoughts are murder and lustful thoughts are adultery, then realistically speaking every single “Christian” would need to be put “back [in]to God’s grace.” However, if we are saved by belief by a sacrifice that has paid for all sins for all time, then you cannot fall out of grace. Of course, this is contingent upon the legitimate, actual faith onto God that is credited as righteous, not “that faith” that James derides which is only nominally faith.
“Christ appointed the Apostles as His ministers to do His work among His people, and that work still needs to be done.”
I hope you check up what I have written on Apostolic Succession.
“If you’re having such a struggle with sin that you fall so easily and gravely…”
In my thought life, that can very well be sometimes.
“The Church has taught, always and consistently, that schismatic Baptism, if done “with the intention of doing what the Church does,” accomplishes the same grace as Baptism performed in the Catholic Church (cf. Council of Trent, 7th Session, 3 March 1547, Decree concerning the Sacraments, Touching Baptism, Canon IV), a teaching dating from the schism of Novatian in the third century.”
True. But, could sins be bound and loosed in a schismatic church? If they cannot be,, then being in that church is a mark of being outside of God’s grace, because there isn’t a valid means to be forgiven sins.
“You are reading another doctrine into Scripture contrary to its own teaching.”
Care to explain?
“The translation you cite actually fudges the tense of the verb “are sanctified”: it’s a present participle (check the Greek), more correctly translated “those who are being sanctified” (as many recent translations read).”
I do not know Greek, but I can reference present participles. Would you like to go exhaustively down the list with me?
“If you were “perfected” from the moment Christ paid the price for your redemption, why were you not born perfectly conformed to Christ? ”
It is only credited upon belief, not upon baptism or human birth.
God bless,
Craig
Once again, the Catholic Church agrees with you 100%. But the crucial question, and this is in fact the question we started with: Can a faithful believer be saved without good works following? As Bede says, works are not necessarily for salvation in and of themselves, since a believer may not have time to carry out the good works that follow faith. But can a believer who has true faith not carry out good works? Most Reformed thinkers I know would say no, that a “believer” without the evidence of good works is not “saved” at all.
You keep repeating this idea of “works maintaining salvation,” and I don’t know where you’re getting that. That is not a Catholic idea at all. No, works do not “maintain” salvation and certainly works do not erase sins.
This is a Reformed idea but not one supported by Scripture. If every believer’s sin was already “cancelled for all time,” then why are we taught to “confess our sins [so that Jesus will] forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9)?
We are quibbling over terminology. The verb “sanctify” (Greek ἁγιάζω [hagiazo]) most literally means “make holy” (note the root hagio). Sure, we have been set apart by Christ and that’s done. But Christ never finishes making us holy until the day we stand before Him perfected. The process called sanctification by both Catholic and Protestant theologians is the process of being conformed to Christ which you agree is ongoing. And no, certainly our eternal destiny does not hinge on that: the new, unrefined believer will be “just as saved” as the saint nearing the end.
Certainy we will all reach that state: but just as certainly, work (God’s grace working in our lives) is a part of that process of refinement (Phil 2:12-13).
As I’ve been agreeing repeatedly.
Again, I am confused by this concept of “maintaining” salvation. Are you equating being in a state of grace with “a saved state”? These two concepts are not the same thing, and this is yet another example of Catholics and Protestants talking past each other. The Catholic who commits mortal sin does not “lose his salvation.” I recently wrote a whole series trying to clear up this misconception (see “Falling from Grace, and God’s Mercy and Forgiveness”).
I would suggest that perhaps you are looking at the Sacraments and this idea of “maintenance” in the wrong way. Do we have to be “maintained” in God’s grace — which Catholics understand to be, quite literally, the love of God poured into our hearts (Romans 5:5)? Or is “grace” limited only to a once-and-for-all forensic declaration of our righteousness, after which He leaves us alone for all the rest of our lives? (See my post, “Justification is not the end of the road.”) If grace is a fountain of living water — if the Eucharist is the Bread of Life, and Christ’s presence with us — then we want to be “maintained” in that, to experience that love and that life at all times. We need the Sacraments not because His grace is in any way deficient or insufficient, but because we are sinful creatures in constant need of His love and mercy.
I think, in Protestant fashion, you are looking at “salvation” as a purely forensic judgment, for which we must have “credit” and “evidence” and “prove” ourselves. But the Catholic understanding of salvation is not merely the forgiveness of our sins and our being counted as righteous, but our being completely transformed in Christ’s image by His grace, being filled up with His love and changed by it.
Certainly thinking hateful thoughts is sinful, but it is not the same sin as actually committing murder — Jesus’s hyperbole notwithstanding. No society, Christian or otherwise, has instituted the death penalty for thinking hateful thoughts. Yes, the thinker of hateful thoughts needs God’s grace and forgiveness, too, but this is not the sort of grave sin that demands the Sacrament of Confession. Ask God’s forgiveness! His mercy never runs out.
The price has been paid for all time, certainly, but if grace is love poured into our hearts rather than some external, judicial disposition, then sin can damage the love we are seeking to live in — as sin by its nature does. My experience as a Protestant was that no matter how many times I told myself that “my sins were already covered, once and for all,” it was an exercise in denial: there was a loss of grace in my life, really, actually, and pratically, that damaged my love for God and for others; and the only remedy was again humbling myself in repentance and throwing myself at the mercy of God.
I have not, but I’ll look into it. Likewise, I’ve written a good bit on it I’d be glad to share with you. 🙂
God’s mercy and His grace is there for you. You have not received it all already. The assurance that “all my sins are already forgiven” is not much assurance at all when one in struggling; but He always gives His grace, ever, constantly, and without fail or end, to heal us, transform us, and strengthen us in the battle against sin. This is the beauty and grace of the Sacrament of Confession: to always be able to receive that grace firsthand, and to hear that healing and forgiveness pronounced over us, in the times we are hurting most. (What I always heard as a Protestant was essentially, “Keep a stiff upper lip, son; God’s got it covered.”)
God’s grace is not confined to or constrained by any church.
Simply what I said: If Paul, the supposed teacher of this concept of “penal substitutionary atonement,” himself states, plainly and unambiguously, that “each man will be judged according to what he has done” (Romans 2:6) — without reference to Christ’s righteousness being judged instead of ours, and in fact mere chapters away from the passages from which Protestants seek to infer that doctrine — then that probably isn’t what Paul meant at all. To read this concept of “Christ’s righteousness being judged instead of ours” against plain statements to the contrary, not only by Paul (also 2 Cor 5:10, etc.), but by Jesus (Matt 25:14-46, 12:36, etc.), John (Rev 2:12-13, etc.), and Peter (1 Peter 1:17), is exactly that, reading a doctrine into Scripture contrary to what it actually teaches.
I’m not sure what you’re asking, but I’ll be glad to help in any way that I can.
So, it is always faith, just given the time works come naturally with legitimate faith. The faith alone justifies from beginning to end, how such faith will have works because the Holy Spirit will work them through the believer.
“Can a faithful believer be saved without good works following [given a reasonable period of time]?”
No. Because faith is a work of the Holy Spirit through the believer. The same Holy Spirit that compels the unbeliever to believe, compels the formerly unrighteous sinner to do good works to God’s praise.
“Most Reformed thinkers I know would say no, that a “believer” without the evidence of good works is not “saved” at all.”
They would be correct.
“You keep repeating this idea of “works maintaining salvation,” and I don’t know where you’re getting that. That is not a Catholic idea at all.”
Gerry Matatics when he debates alludes to this. To quote Joe at the Shameless Popery blog, “…the role of works is to sustain and grow the seed of faith, and without them, that faith will die.” That sure sounds like maintaining salvation to me!
Me: Christ’s work on the cross canceled all believers sins for all time.
You: “This is a Reformed idea but not one supported by Scripture.”
“…having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us…having nailed it to the cross” (Col 2:14). “[W]e have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Heb 10:10). The term “have been sanctified” is the perfect tense, so it relates to a past and finished event. So, there is not additional process of sanctification in the sense a Christian becomes forgiven for more sins over time. The Christian has been completely sanctified, because he has been completely forgiven.
“If every believer’s sin was already ‘cancelled for all time,’ then why are we taught to “confess our sins [so that Jesus will] forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9)?
That verse does not say that if we confess, God as a result of the confession forgives. It says if we confess ours, God is faithful in forgiving. Why? Because by faith we are righteous through forgiveness made available to us on the cross. If we remain faithful by being obedient to the Scriptures, whether that be confession, are turning others from sin, or other works which “cover sins” and the sort, we persevere in the faith that brings real forgiveness. However, there are not multiple events of forgiveness, because there is only one event that attains any lasting forgiveness for anyone, and that is the crucifixion.
“Certainly we will all reach that state: but just as certainly, work (God’s grace working in our lives) is a part of that process of refinement (Phil 2:12-13).”
It is not part of the process, it is the legitimate result of faith that is central to the process.
“As I’ve been agreeing repeatedly.”
🙂
“The Catholic who commits mortal sin does not “lose his salvation…”
You said in your own article that a person who falls from grace will “be condemned to hell, should he die in that state.” So, while we may be talking past each other, myself referring to salvation as something that actually means being saved on the day of judgement and you referring to it as a state that exists after baptism but may not avail you on the day of judgement, I say let’s cut to the chase. Someone who God’s saves He will not lose, or saving is not really “safe.” Someone condemned to the pits of hell, foreknown by God to be his destiny before he was born, was never saved from anything.
“We need the Sacraments not because His grace is in any way deficient or insufficient, but because we are sinful creatures in constant need of His love and mercy.”
But sacraments are not sufficient to fulfill the constant need of His love and mercy. First, a payment for our sin is needed, and that’s already done for us on the cross. Second, the Holy Spirit and God’s good pleasure to keep us from temptation (He does not have to, if He was compelled never to do so we would not pray to be kept from the evil one) guarantee our daily sustenance in Him. Now, according to most mainline Protestants that likewise have sacraments, taking part in the sacramental life is an outgrowth of the second point I just raised. However, we need to take the focus away from us doing something in order to satisfy our need of His love and mercy and instead point it to God, who satisfies this need by the works of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
“I think, in Protestant fashion, you are looking at “salvation” as a purely forensic judgment, for which we must have “credit” and “evidence” and “prove” ourselves. But the Catholic understanding of salvation is not merely the forgiveness of our sins and our being counted as righteous, but our being completely transformed in Christ’s image by His grace, being filled up with His love and changed by it.”
Salvation is not salvation in the view. Salvation is not salvific if you are not actually saved on the day of judgement. THe forensic view, from this perspective, makes sense.
“Certainly thinking hateful thoughts is sinful, but it is not the same sin as actually committing murder — Jesus’s hyperbole notwithstanding…”
That is not hyperbole, He made clear that our righteousness had to exceed that of the Pharisees. When teaching on adultery He says, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matt 5:27-28). Jesus is not exaggerating, He is literally correcting a deficient view of sin which views only the outside action as heinous. God, who sees the heart, finds both equally heinous.
I think if we took the Law really serious and understood that God rightly expects perfection (Deut 18:13), then the idea of diving up sins between venial and mortal becomes a fruitless endeavor. Every sin is mortal. We need to have a very high view of God’s holiness so that we can understand how much we are at His mercy and require forgiveness.
“No society, Christian or otherwise, has instituted the death penalty for thinking hateful thoughts.”
The prince of this world is Satan. God has instituted the death penalty for both hateful and lustful thoughts. Coveting is a thought, and breaking the tenth commandment is just as bad as breaking the first nine. We will have to give an account to God for even our thought life, every single sin.
“I have not, but I’ll look into it. Likewise, I’ve written a good bit on it I’d be glad to share with you. :)”
http://christianreformedtheology.com/2015/03/03/tradition-disproves-catholic-and-orthodox-view-of-apostolic-succession-part-i/
http://christianreformedtheology.com/2015/03/06/tradition-disproves-catholic-and-orthodox-view-of-apostolic-succession-part-ii/
“The assurance that “all my sins are already forgiven” is not much assurance at all when one in struggling…”
Oh, I disagree with that. I almost lost everything that was dear to me and that blessed assurance was what kept me alive.
“What I always heard as a Protestant was essentially, “Keep a stiff upper lip, son; God’s got it covered.'”
Well, Lutheranism technically wouldn’t do that, and even old school baptists wouldn’t do that (my chuch used to require congregants to attend saturday night before the Lord’s Supper to confess sin so that they might not take the elements in an unworthy matter the next day.) Heck, that’s a baptist church, you cannot get any more the opposite of Catholicism! I think modern Protestantism has become very worldly and corrupted, and I think that the unbiblical abandonment of confession, is just one of the casualties.
I for one think that it would be extremely important to reinstitute confession. Also, I say bring back the head coverings and modesty in dress! (I’m serious, BTW.)
“God’s grace is not confined to or constrained by any church.”
Can sins be bound and loosed outside Catholcism?If not, how does a schismatic have his sins loosed?
“Simply what I said: If Paul, the supposed teacher of this concept of “penal substitutionary atonement,” himself states, plainly and unambiguously, that “each man will be judged according to what he has done” (Romans 2:6) — without reference to Christ’s righteousness being judged instead of ours, and in fact mere chapters away from the passages from which Protestants seek to infer that doctrine — then that probably isn’t what Paul meant at all.”
Have you read Rom 1-3? Who in those chapters is going to fare well on judgement day when he is judged by his works, especially when there is no one righteous, not even one (Rom 3:10)? Like I already told you, even if you reject Martin Luther’s view of the “great exchange,” do not reject Justin Martyr’s view of the “sweet exchange!”
For what other thing was capable of covering our sins than His righteousness? By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God? O sweet exchange! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! that the wickedness of many should be hid in a single righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors (Epistle to Diognetus, Chapter 9)!
If Christ paid the full penalty for all our bad works, that certificate of debt canceled on the cross, then what is left even without the positive imputation of Christ’s good works? Certainly no bad works. So, judgement by works is totally contingent upon what Christ has done for man, not what man has done for himself on any level.
“If it (justification?) were credited “upon belief,” then why does the forgiveness of sins follow upon Baptism? “Repent, and be baptized … for the forgiveness of your sins” (Acts 2:37). (Ananias to Paul) “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 20:16). “You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified…” (1 Cor 6:11). Even Paul’s appeals to justification by faith take for granted that his readers have all been baptized (Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-5).”
This is a whole other can of worms, not one in which I am prepared or knowledgeable enough to respond to. I would just say simply that baptism with water saves no one, it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that is essential. So, clearly sins are forgiven if you literally have God inside of your body!
God bless,Craig
How it sounds to you and what it actually is are not necessarily consonant.
Didn’t we just go through this? Per your own argument above, didn’t you just say that “sanctified” means “set apart”? Literally the word means “made holy,” and that’s all it means. And there is nothing in this verse to demand that we were completely sanctified (made completely holy, i.e. perfect in grace) by Jesus’s once-and-for-all offering. That is an interpretation that even Reformed theologians (even John Calvin) reject.
In fact, that is pretty much exactly what it says. See the Greek. I’ll step you through it:
If (ἐὰν [ean]) we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, with the result that (ἵνα [hina], marker of a purpose clause) he might forgive us our sins.
That isn’t what the Scripture says.
“Work out (Greek κατεργάζεσθε [katergazesthe], more closely translated work completely, bring about, produce, effect, achieve) your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”
“Effect your own salvation,” for God is working in you. This sounds very much like an ongoing process of work to me.
(For more on the translation of that word, see my post “Work out your own salvation: The Apostle Paul, William Tyndale, and the leaven of a phrase”)
As my whole series exposits, Catholics and Protestants have fundamentally different ways of delineating “salvation” and even using that term. I don’t think we are going to resolve all of those here. But both Protestants and Catholics have the same problem: How do we explain the case of the person who claims to have faith, bears good fruits in that faith, and then rejects God and turns away? Protestants suppose, seizing on such verses as John 6:39, that Jesus “should lose nothing of all that [God] has given me,” that those believers whom Jesus “has” cannot fall away; and thus somebody who does fall away must never have been a believer in the first place. But this is in plain contradiction to Jesus’s own warnings against falling away from the faith, especially in the vivid imagery of the Parable of the Sower (Luke 8:4-15), which illustrates just such a person: one who “[hears] the word, [receives] it with joy, but [having] no root, [believes] for a while and in time of temptation [falls] away” (v. 13). By equating “belief” with “belonging to the Lord” and with “salvation,” Protestants wall themselves into this illogical and contradictory interpretation.
Catholics believe that the Sacraments are just exactly that.
But not from the perspective of what Scripture actually teaches.
God is a just and merciful God. It would not be justice to put to death the murderer and the man who thought about murder alongside each other. Yes, Jesus corrects a deficient view: sins inside the heart are heinous. But to claim that God “finds both equally heinous,” or that this is even what Jesus meant, is absurd. God is not a monster.
I think you would be hard-pressed to justify this view from Scripture. “All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal (lit. πρὸς θάνατον [pros thanaton], unto death).” (1 John 5:17)
It is precisely because of God’s mercy and forgiveness that Jesus came to die for us, so that we would not have to die for our sins.
Care to show me that from Scripture?
How is that consistent at all with believing that “our every sin is already forgiven”?
It is God who forgives sins. Whoever said that He needs a man to loose sins?
Yes, I have read this. It is in this very passage that Paul affirms that “God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance” (v. 4) and that “He will render to each man according to his works” (v. 6). Per Paul’s own words, yes, the man “who by patience in well-doing [seeks] for glory and honor and immortality” (v. 7) will fare quite well!
Paul here quotes the Psalmist (cf. Psalm 14:1-3) — but the Psalmist himself makes clear that this is another example of hyperbole; for “God is with the generation of the righteous” (Psalm 14:5). Neither Paul’s words nor the words he cites can be taken as a dogmatic statement that “no one is righteous,” especially in light of his words mere verses prior. The context of his statement in Chapter 3 is that we have sinned and need Christ — which we do. But this certainly does not exclude the possibility of righteousness in Christ, which he teaches consistently (cf. Romans 8:1-5).
And yet Scripture repeatedly stresses that man will be judged according to what he has done. Yes, the Catholic Church agrees completely that it is by Jesus’s sacrifice that the price for our sins is paid, that He nailed our sins to the cross, that it is by His righteousness that we are healed and saved and justified, and everything else Scripture teaches — yet this idea of “forensic justification” is not taught in Scripture. Scripture teaches, again and again, that by His Spirit working in us, we can walk in good works (Eph 2:8-10, Phil 2:12-13, Romans 8:1-5, Gal 5:16-26, etc.) — and it is these works that will be rewarded.
That is not what the Scripture says. “Baptism … now saves you” (1 Pet 3:21). “He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).
His peace be with you.
“How it sounds to you and what it actually is are not necessarily consonant. ”
There have been whole debates on faith alone versus faith + works. I’m not very interested in playing semantics. Catholics obviously believe that doing works play a role in maintaining their right status with God, whether it be that the works maintain good faith, or the works cover over sins (charity covers a multitude of sins, 1 Peter 4:8), or whatever else. If you want to disagree with the obvious intent of what other Catholics have written and repackage it to make it more digestible, I am not very convinced.
“And there is nothing in this verse to demand that we were completely sanctified (made completely holy, i.e. perfect in grace) by Jesus’s once-and-for-all offering. That is an interpretation that even Reformed theologians (even John Calvin) reject.”
Are you sure about that? ” For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified” (Heb 10:14). One offering, 2000 years ago, makes people in Christ perfect. So yes, those in Christ are in a sense perfectly sanctified in God’s eyes because of what Christ did on the cross.
“That isn’t what the Scripture says.”
Heb 10 would disagree.
““Effect your own salvation,” for God is working in you. This sounds very much like an ongoing process of work to me.”
That is taking out of context what Phil 2:12 says. You choose the word “effect” for the words usually translated “work out.” From what I can tell, the word is essentially related to the word “produce,” so it wouldn’t be inaccurate to say “produce your salvation in fear and trembling.” Do we literally produce our own salvation or is Paul conveying a different point, such as the translation “work out” would seem to mean?
“But this is in plain contradiction to Jesus’s own warnings against falling away from the faith…”
No, the Scripture says that “they were not of us” and Christ warns that the “elect can be deceived, if that were possible” which means it isn’t possible.
“Catholics believe that the Sacraments are just exactly that.”
They claim they are, but they are treated as works on a list that people have to check off.
“God is a just and merciful God. It would not be justice to put to death the murderer and the man who thought about murder alongside each other.”
Who says, who are you to stand in judgement of God who judges the heart? You seem to be saying, “This teaching is too difficult for me, so I refuse to believe in such a God, even if He says it.” The Scripture is clear: hatred is murder, lust is adultery.
“I think you would be hard-pressed to justify this view from Scripture. “All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal (lit. πρὸς θάνατον [pros thanaton], unto death).” (1 John 5:17)”
James wrote those who break one Law are guilty of breaking all of it. 1 John 5:17, which you probably cannot clearly exegete without shoehorning assumptions as to what that sin is (I would presume that sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit), does not even speak to this topic. You already agree that venial sins can send an unbelieving pagan to hell. So, whether 1 John 5:17 clearly refers to a mortal sin that you can identify is irrelevant to the conversation.
“Care to show me that from Scripture?”
Hatred is murder, lust is adultery, coveting is equivalent to breaking the whole Law o that lops in lying, witchcraft, sodomy, murder, disobeying parents, etcetera.
“How is that consistent at all with believing that “our every sin is already forgiven”? ”
Because it is a faithful response to God, and faith in God forgives sins.
“Yes, I have read this. It is in this very passage that Paul affirms that “God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance” (v. 4) and that “He will render to each man according to his works” (v. 6). Per Paul’s own words, yes, the man “who by patience in well-doing [seeks] for glory and honor and immortality” (v. 7) will fare quite well!”
Who in verse 7 fare well? Those who know Christ. Everyone else, judged even by the law of nature (their conscience) will find they are unrighteous, not seeking God, their throats are open graves, etc.
“Paul here quotes the Psalmist (cf. Psalm 14:1-3) — but the Psalmist himself makes clear that this is another example of hyperbole…”
It’s not hyperbole, it is found throughout the Scripture. Every man has sinned and fallen short from the glory of God. This is why no one is righteous. You are justifying yourself rather than God! “There is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins” (Ecc 7:20). God’s standards for goodness are sinlessness. No pagan, Jew, or anyone apart from Christ meet the standard. Only those in Christ, whose sins have been paid for in full, are accounted as sinless and therefore righteous.
“And yet Scripture repeatedly stresses that man will be judged according to what he has done.”
That should scare you and have you fleeing to Christ so that you may be hidden with Christ in God (Col 3:3).
“…it is these works that will be rewarded.”
These good works are God’s own doing (Phil 2:13). So, your judgement upon works is purely upon what God does, not what you do.
“That is not what the Scripture says. “Baptism … now saves you” (1 Pet 3:21). “He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).”
Not baptism by water (which 1 Peter 3:21 literally says!) but by the Holy Spirit. In Acts 8, tons of Samarians were baptized into Christ but did not receive the Holy Spirit. Water does not regenerate, the Holy Spirit does. This is why Catholics teach Baptism by Desire, and Baptism by Blood–given the circumstances, water is not the essential saving factor. It alone is God.
God bless,
Craig